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Global Reasoning-Tolerance.
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ehsan elahi ehsan
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 2:58 pm    Post subject: Global Reasoning-Tolerance. Reply with quote

Congratulation to every body on the opening of this new forum. I have been asked to work for this forum as a moderator. The rules for the users have been set by Clive the Webmaste and I think those are very easy and simple to follow. All kinds of writings that help us understand one another and minimise the gap between man and man will be encouraged. Let us try to display tolerance to chieve this aim and let this be the first topic of the forum. Please remember, this forum is a literary forum and the writer is expected to speak through his literary writings and discussion. Good and positive ideas work with full force and definitely change a society. Society is now global, let us try that it looks better through our "Global Reasoning".
Thanks
ehsan elahi ehsan
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DaveR
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congratulations to you, Ehsan. May this forum be fruitful and contribute to making a better world. May the discussions you moderate on this forum lead to peace and understanding between peoples, religions, cultures . . . and political parties.
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matt
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 10:05 pm    Post subject: EVERYONE EVERYWHERE! Reply with quote

If Ehsan Elahi Ehsan will indulge me: We have a dream that people from Everywhere, Earth, will participate. We don't yet know how to get them here, but if we figure it out we will get them.

Could those posting on this forum, please tell us where they're from and where they are?

Hopes.

Thank you.
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ehsan elahi ehsan
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 9:33 am    Post subject: Global Reasoning - Tolerance Reply with quote

Hello DaveR. Thnak for your moral support.
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regina0123
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 8:24 pm    Post subject: On tolerance Reply with quote

I've given much thought to the reasons why people are intolerant, and believe it may be based in simple insecurity. If we each had a healthy (but not prideful) self-confidence, then our way of life, our relationships, our life's work would not be threatened by someone else.

Why do we think everyone should have the same religion or life style as we do? In order to receive a confirmation that we are right in our choices, I imagine.
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DaveR
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could be fear. Many people fear that if they even consider a different point of view on religion or economics the world will fall apart.

I was born and raised, and still live, in the United States. Most individuals won't even discuss socialism for fear it will gain strenth and lead to the downfall of our system. Of course ignorance also plays a part, both on the side of those promoting socialism and those against it.

What do people in other countries and cultures think about intolerance preventing people from living in peace on this planet?
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matt
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 9:26 pm    Post subject: Self confidence / Fear Reply with quote

Dave and Regina, you are citing some of the greater elements. If I'm not too far off, I might assume that some would talk of ego.

We get misinformation about people, we get wrong information, and we get attitudes. None of those offer us a reality, so we are scared and have no confidence in coexistence offering and protecting what we need.
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regina0123
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If we think that insecurity, fear and ego are the causes for intolerance, they would all come from the same root, correct?

In thinking about tolerance, I think of John Lennon's "Imagine" (Dave - I've forgotten the correct definitions of the forms of government, but would think the song pretty much described socialism).

And in considering governments, it seems that those in power have sometimes (I use this in an attempt to sound reasonable, when I really have much more negative thoughts about governments in general) manipulated religion and patriotism to further their own personal ends, inflaming prejudice toward the "enemy", thereby demeaning true faith and the heartfelt love of one’s country.

But --- back to tolerance and insecurity --- if you love your country, or your spouse, or your religion, that doesn't have to mean that your country, etc. is better than any other. It's a false crutch.
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matt
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 10:48 pm    Post subject: Said well Reply with quote

Things as we have them prove that tools and systems can be designed. Your words are telling me that values can be designed, and implemented into the designs of systems and tools. So it would seem that the values are the parts subjected to judgement. If that's the case, there is a matter of identifying the values employed while designing the system that ascribes the values.

I have always found motives more informing than the actions taken.

In my very limited experience, I have found that there is no place superior to another, there are no people superior to others. In one place the people are tall, in another they are less tall. In some place the people work 10 hours, in another they work 12. In all places someone loves someone more than he/she loves others. In all places someone wants a home and some private space in which to rest or perform some personal work.

That word "socialism" has risen again. It's like anything. It's nature depends on the values that design it, and the tolerance exercised by larger entities.
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Clive
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would like to start with an observation followed by a simple conclusion.

I have never sat in a bar or other meeting place with my friends and suggested that we approach the government to go to war against a country, I have never know a single soul that thought like that or would attempt to make their thoughts a reality.
And yet we have war after war and millions have died. The people calling for these wars against nations are a few at the top that are making all these discussion for many people.

It is an observation that the only people with enough ego and pathological control freak issues can have enough drive to make it to the top. So this is what we get

A few people at the top make the rules we must live by and my observation is that these individuals although very smart with a lot of drive do not make the best discussions for the many – it always seems to put money in the pockets of their friends. (big bucks in killing people)

My conclusion is that all war comes from the top level leaders and until we are telling them what to do with the nations of the world there will still be many that suffer and die for what is still called freedom.

The Years Is 2005 and we have people starving all over the world, looks to me like the human race is lost before it started…
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DaveR
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Then let us focus our conversation on the war in Iraq. How does intolerance effect what is going on there? How will tolerance end the destruction and killing? What can the governments of the United States, Iran, Syria, Israel, Pakistan, India, and others do with respect to each other? What can the peoples of those countries do?
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matt
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 9:28 am    Post subject: Focus on...? Reply with quote

Hi Dave. I disagree with you. Focusing a conversation on the war in Iraq is limiting things to one issue. (I also have the opinion that governments each have investments in events, and that somehow displays the obvious.) There are many nooks on the planet, and our hope for this forum is that it will be host many issues, and not be tethered (spelling?).

Here it is fine to talk about that war if you want. However, not each TV on the planet is tuned into North American news services, which provide us with that particular war as the thing upon which to pass our minds.

It's okay to talk about it. I just hope that it's not a focal rule at this point. We have attracted enough US and Canadian citizens already. It limits us and such ignorance is downright selfish, fearful behavior.

Talk about the war if you wish. BUT, let's leave this open to the possibility of someone talking about mountains and spring water in their region. It might be far more helpful than talking more about war, which is generally perceived as being a negative element.

As you know, we are not ignoring the war. I personally, feel it's wrong. I personally, feel we're being fed crap for information. I personally feel medical care would be a better expense. .... And on and and and on.

If some persons born (and maybe even living) in Iraq want to talk about the war, that would be more useful than me sitting in Normerican suburbia telling people what the reality is.

If you want to know about a good Rye Schnapps, ask a Dane.
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regina0123
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Matt - until we become less like sheep following whatever justifications we are given for this war, then we can change nothing. The news we receive is limited or slanted, and that is the source most of the population has for forming their opinions. Independent World Television (iwtnews.com) is one news organization that is attempting to provide accurate worldwide news.

So it would be better to speak of positive things, and what ideas we have to promote not just tolerance, but free-thinking and taking responsibility for our own actions. Until we do these things on a personal level, we can't expect our governments to do so.

This forum is a great idea - and I hope many more people from all nations will find this and join in.
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DaveR
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, Matt, if I am off base. I thought that by focusing on a specific war (Clive alluded to wars in general) which most people in the world might know of, we could get practical inputs from the world community.

If we want peace and understanding in the world we need to get to the roots of intolerance and misunderstanding. What better way to get to the roots than by examining the plant?

I would now like to bow out of the discussion and let the global community continue the conversation.


Last edited by DaveR on Tue Oct 11, 2005 10:06 am; edited 1 time in total
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regina0123
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave - it was a good thought.... but I could write probably 50 pages alone on my thoughts about the war in Iraq. And I would hate to sink into something so negative right off the bat. But asking what people of all those countries can do is a good question.
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DaveR
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

regina0123, Matt, Clive, thanks for getting the conversation off to a good start. Ehsan, can you get people from your part of the world to join in?
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DaveR
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I meant that in a positve way, that the conversation is off to a good start. Cool
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matt
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 1:50 pm    Post subject: ? Reply with quote

There's no reason to bow out of it Dave. We are all welcome to comment, yet the fact is that this forum was made to gather people who talk about first hand life. You're not wrong to add to it. I disagreed with making that focus right now. My hope is that in time we will have more people from more places for this forum. Amidst other responsibilities to being alive, I am slowly working on making contact and asking the help of groups that might help us get the word around.

Nobody has been bad. We're okay.
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ehsan elahi ehsan
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:19 am    Post subject: Global Reasoning - Tolerance Reply with quote

Dear DaveR and dear maat.

We were talking of and discussing on tolerance. There are many hurdles to reach global reasoning. We shall be facing difference of opinion, contradiction even opposition not only to our opinions but also to the direction where the discussion must lead to. In all circumstances we have to show tolerance. You both are very dear and respectable to me. please try to adjust. This is my appeal to you especially to DaveR not to talk of bowing off. I cannot suffer this loss! Please!
Welcome to Regina0123 who is new to me though may not be to forum. I hope your active participation would keep the discussion enlivened. Thanks for joining us.
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matt
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:23 am    Post subject: Thank you. Reply with quote

Thank you Ehsan Elahi Ehsan. If you knew me better, you might not feel so dearly. Nonetheless, your good words are comforting wisdom.

Dave, you're not leaving.
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DaveR
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not quitting. I want to read what others have to say. I wish others participate and I want to leave room for others, like regina, to join in as you (Matt and Ehsan) lead the conversations.

Matt, this forum is a great idea, and thinkers from all over the planet will join in once they find Global Reasoning.
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matt
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:15 am    Post subject: I hope so. Reply with quote

I hope so, but my confidence is not so grand.
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ehsan elahi ehsan
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:46 pm    Post subject: Global Reasoning Reply with quote

DaveR, I wish you participate and that does not mean that you should only read.
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regina0123
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To further this discussion, Ehsan, Dave, Clive, Matt and any others out there who join in now or later:

Questions on tolerance:
1. Do you feel your parents were tolerant?
2. In the area where you grew up, was being open to new cultures encouraged?
3. Do you think your parents or religion or schools or community most influenced how you accepted others who were different from you?

My answers:
1. Yes, my father was in the Air Force, and although they grew up in small towns that were intolerant of anything different, they became more tolerant due to the people we met and the places we lived.
2. I lived a lot of places, but most small towns where I've lived seem to not want change.
3. I think my parents were my largest influence, with schools being the second most important.
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ehsan elahi ehsan
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 3:21 pm    Post subject: Global Reasoning - Tolerance Reply with quote

Regina0123, your questions are concerned with what were you made by the parents and society/religion. Do you mean that we cannot be what were we made? We want to recognize and recognize well that peace in the world is impossible without tolerance and its application is the dire necessity of the time otherwise we shall be dragging the world and ourselves to further and perhaps the final and total destruction. Tolerance can be cultivated only when we out-root prejudice and hatred. This is not, of course, an easy task. It requires patience and constant digging into human nature.
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