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Extremism and Fanaticism
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ehsan elahi ehsan
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 8:46 pm    Post subject: Extremism and Fanaticism Reply with quote

Saddam was one favourite of American in the war between Iran and Iraq.
There are still many govts in the world in which the people have no voice yet they are the friends of America. The dichotomy is one of the cuases of extremism. The other is the bigotory of some powerful nations in the U>N>O.
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Clive
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 6:35 am    Post subject: Who is fighting who Reply with quote

Yes – Americans are in Iraq – and they are friends with nations with out law - but that can be said about many nation having friend with nations that are not USA. When Arab insurgents kill Iraqi nationalists I cant see it being a war against the American oppression but a war of Arabs against Arabs for control of the oil and money for the purpose of building a military and conquering others middle eastern nations.

I really wonder how the rest of the Arab countries feel about Iran having the nuke in their back yard. Oil is the only real resource in the Middle East being number one for money production. When the world goes to hydrogen what will the affect be in the Middle East.
If billions of dollars are not poured in to the Middle East what will the people do.
It will be hard times. The CBC did a report on what is taught in Iranian schools and that type of subject material is banned in North America. We can not dance in the street and chant death songs. Here we are jailed under the hate crimes act it is classed as a very sever crime.

Would you give me your opinion of Saddam as a man and a leader?
Whether you think he did good or bad for his people there, all we know over here is that he was an evil man that killed many (thousands) of his own people just for disagreeing with him.

One other question – what is the feeling about an all out nuclear war in the middle east - do the people suspect this will happen as a result of terrorists attacking the most powerful country on the globe. Or will Iran just have a nuclear accident while assembling their nukes.

When religion leads a country you will have all kinds of disagreements.
Every group will want their own rules to govern the people. There is a global economy being developed and many country’s will HAVE TO come on board weather they like it or not (unfortunately) because with out coming on board they will not survive well.

I spoke with an Iranian women, that runs a store here and she is happy to be out and said she feared for the life of her family by the people that run Iran. People seem to fear for their safety more in the Middle East then most places in the world.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ehsan

I think if a reasonable person takes the trouble to look into the past, he will find that the United States and every other country on the face of the globe have switched partners as the years pass. This is history. No two nations can remain allies or enemies forever, and it is not the cause of extremism, it is the result of expediency.
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ehsan elahi ehsan
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 7:40 am    Post subject: Extremism and Fanaticism Reply with quote

Clive and Harry,
To me Sadam was a dictator and as a dictator he must be condemned but he did not become dictator all of a sudden.
Iraqi nation on the whole has been and is being punished more than Saddam.
Arabs do not want to occupy the oil sources of one another.
Why do you not condemn all those countries who have nuclear power, why Iran only.
Why do you not condemn the interference of any coutry in another and weaker country.
I agree that nations are getting closer with other nations on mutual interest, that was not the question under discussion.
What did I say was a general idea why and how the extremists and fanatics are produced. I did not want to discuss the countries in particular,
in the present case even Iraq, Iran, America have not such importance as have the people being killed by the insurgents or the govts. What fault those innocest people have and had.


All animals are equal but some are more equal.
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Clive
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 8:51 am    Post subject: Iran Scares North America... Reply with quote

A week ago over a million people chanted death to America – we do not do these chants in the street. If some one chants death to me and they are trying to get a nuke then I will want them stopped before their chant is a reality. How can this be viewed differently.
We know that the arms race of the 50-s caused nuclear proliferation.

The USA has had nukes (60 years) and only used them in Japan to put an end to WWII and it worked, and since then they have had many wars and never used it nor do they chant death to Iran. Do you see how some one chanting death to you - will cause unrest and not solve anything except to heighten tensions? It is the statements by Mahmoud Ahmadinejad that makes me not trust Iran…when he wants to wipe Israel off the face of the earth - that will be easier with nukes – but the Israelis have more and each will only accomplish mass destruction.

And Saddam did attack a brother nation Kuwait and the Kurds for control of oil - and caused much destruction to the whole globe by blowing up the oil fields - that is unforgivable…

This is what I see…

ONE QUESTION: what would be the determining factor/s to stop terrorist threats against North America, England, Bosnia, Germany, France, and Spain and so on?
What needs be done…
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good question Clive? Another question: Are all the terrorist threats and actions related to one source?
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ehsan elahi ehsan
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 4:46 pm    Post subject: Clive and DaveR Reply with quote

Ask these questions from the terrorists.






The man who commited the crime was innocent, the man who is doubted to commit the crime is the criminal!
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DaveR
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They remain silent. How can there be global reasoning if one party will not talk?
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ehsan elahi ehsan
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 6:42 pm    Post subject: Extremis and Fanaticism Reply with quote

DaveR,
This is the basis for global reasoning. "If we try to analyse the chain it looks like:
disliking- -nterference- intolerance -prejudice -hatred -extremism-fanatacism -terrorism."

If we go into particularities and begin to justify aggressions, we shall be going nowhere but just taking the rounds on the same place. I did not make any mention of any country or personalityes into my proposition. I condemned extremism and fanaticism in my orginal statemment "Extremism and fanaticism of any kind, in any shape have their drastic effects on every society", but I am being questioned in such a way as if I was advocating terrorists.
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Heidi
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 6:45 pm    Post subject: eshan's comment Reply with quote

Eshan I think your recent comment about criminals and who is to blame is entirely accurate (at least in my opinion). Most of the time in America the one we think is the least likely to commit a horrendous crime is actually the one most likely to do something like that. Case in point, I just finished readign Under The Banner of Heaven by John Krakauer which discusses the history of Mormons and the horrible case of two brothers who killed an innocent woman and her infant child in the name of God. A lot of people think (not all but some I suppose) think that Mormons are so righteous and holy but this just goes to show that not all of them are. Granted the 2 brothers were part of an extermist faction of Mormonism but still...this is what happens when we adhere to our typical beliefs and stereotypes about people. Sad We think what happens is terrible but then when we find out who did it we say, "Them, they did this? No, that can't be right." However I think that's a big part of the problem. Anyone else agree with me on this point?
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ehsan elahi ehsan
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 7:06 pm    Post subject: Extremism and Fanaticism Reply with quote

Heide, you are quite right.
"Nothing is either good or bad but thinking makes it so"
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You obviously do not travel in those circles. I guess people are looking to you for any insight that you may have and can share. It is a difficult topic to address.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 9:57 pm    Post subject: sad case Reply with quote

The sad case is that the victim is punished.
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ehsan elahi ehsan
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 7:13 am    Post subject: Extremism and Fanaticism Reply with quote

This is the present picture of Iraq and the Iraqi people who were promised freedom and prosperity and who have been doubly made victim of states fanaticsm.



Khaleej Times Online >> News >> EDITORIAL >> Editorial


Global loot of Iraq


31 October 2005



THE scam of Iraq oil-for-food programme continues to unravel. Going by the shocking statistics unveiled in a report this week, this is easily the biggest scam of our times. Over 2000 firms — some of them prominent multinationals — and movers and shakers spread all over the world availed themselves of the huge booty that belonged to Iraq’s unfortunate people.


While the oil exported by the Iraqi regime outside the oil-for-food programme is estimated to be about $11 billion, kickbacks to the value of $2 billion were paid to hundreds of firms and individuals. Apparently, the former Baathist regime of Saddam Hussein was not the only one to exploit Iraqi people. From the Western multinationals to European and Indian politicians to top UN officials, the whole world appears to have helped itself to Iraq’s vast oil wealth. This is most disgusting and completely unacceptable.

Now that we know the truth and who bled Iraq white, those responsible for this unprecedented global loot must be brought to justice. The UN, whose own officials including secretary-general Kofi Annan’s son are implicated, must initiate the process sooner than later in coordination with the US, the occupying force in Iraq. The least the world can do for Iraqi people is get them justice.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:39 am    Post subject: greed Reply with quote

There is more then enough to go around but here is an excellent example of what is wrong with the world/UN. The gluttons of the UN that miss managed money and literally stole from the people of Iraq should be give back and jail time served for theft.
Our government here in Canada has just been charged with a similar type of corruption, they stole money through advertising agencies and then had the money donated to there party to get re-elected. This type of crime is hard to prove as it seems that all leaders and people in high position with great responsibility are not responsible for their actions.

The Iraqi people deserve more then the short end of the stick they have received.
It seems that there is big money in war and the weapon manufactures know that the munitions must be turned over every 10 years or it goes bad, as well as the re-construction projects that generate above average income for the people in charge, Halliburton comes to mind – where they not the people charging their own country 3 times the price for their services. Many people fear globalization as it seems to funnel money to those that don’t need it.

It all boils down to greed… stop greed and solve most problems this world faces on a regular basis…
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 12:59 pm    Post subject: greed Reply with quote

Clive I agree with the last point you made wholeheartedly. Greed is one of those problems that everyone eveywhere in the world faces at some time or another.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 7:11 pm    Post subject: Extremism and Fanaticism Reply with quote

"The USA has had nukes (60 years) and only used them in Japan to put an end to WWII and it worked," Clive.


Khaleen Times on line

The Bomb and US

August 7 2005
GOING by the US State Department’s definition of ‘terrorism’ as the indiscriminate killing of innocent civilians, usually for a political cause, the atomic bombing of Hiroshima this very week 60 years ago must be regarded as history’s worst terrorist act. It resulted in the death of 140,000 non-combatant civilians, more than 40 times the number killed in the Twin Towers attack in 2001. The bombing of Nagasaki three days later, where the death-toll exceeded 70,000, was the world’s second greatest terrorist episode.
It’s not just the scale of the mega-death visited upon the two cities that deserves recalling. Equally relevant is the quality of the human suffering, caused first by savage heat and blast effects of the nuclear weapons which flattened the two cities within seconds, and then by the release of radiation which took a slow, painful, excruciating toll through cancer and leukaemia.
Grotesque as they were, the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings lacked a military rationale. They did not bring about an early end to the World War or save soldiers’ lives, as was claimed by US leaders. Comprehensively battered Japan was all ready to surrender. Ever since Gar Alperovitz published his masterpiece Atomic Diplomacy: Hiroshima and Potsdam in 1965, the world has known this.
Now, US-based historians Peter Kuznick and Mark Selden have unearthed fresh archival evidence from different countries to conclusively show that the decision to bomb Hiroshima and Nagasaki "was meant to kick-start the Cold War rather than end the Second World War". This provides further corroboration of General Dwight Eisenhower’s 1963 statement that "the Japanese were ready to surrender and it wasn’t necessary to hit them with that awful thing".
Similarly, US President Harry S. Truman’s chief of staff, Admiral William Leahy, said: "The use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war." The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender". The bombs "worked" to their intended purpose by successfully establishing the US’s (transient) superiority over its principal rival and war-time ally, the USSR. The Bomb, then, was born in ghastly deception. It has since spawned generations of ever-deadlier weapons and the most furious arms race in history, which saw nuclear warheads multiply from a few score in the 1950s to many thousands in the 1970s, to a mind-boggling 70,000 in the mid-1980s.
The epochal tragedies of Hiroshima and Nagasaki revealed the Bomb as an altogether new kind of weapon of mass annihilation, against which there can be no defence of any kind, military, civil or medical. The Bomb remains unique in its potential ability to exterminate all life — the Ultimate Weapon. The tragedies shocked the world’s conscience and spurred a demand for abolition of this scourge from the face of the earth. Thus was born the peace movement.
The peace movement has popular appeal globally. Its pledge, embossed on a plaque at Hiroshima’s Peace Memorial Park has been endorsed by great statesmen as well as ordinary citizens: "Let all the souls here rest in peace, as we will never repeat this mistake".
However, 60 years on, it’s hard to be confident that Hiroshima will not be repeated. The world today has some 36,000 nuclear bombs in the arsenals of the seven declared nuclear weapons-states (NWSs). (They exclude Israel, which has an estimated 200 nuclear weapons, but still maintains ambiguity, and North Korea.)
The existing global nuclear order, centred on non-proliferation, is in crisis. The promised ‘grand bargain’ on which the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty was based hasn’t materialised. The 180 non-NWSs have by and large stuck to their commitment not to go nuclear. But the NWSs have not delivered on their pledge to disarm. They continue to be addicted to these horror weapons for ‘security’. The recent US-India nuclear deal is likely to further weaken the global nuclear restraint regime. It signals that the penalties for violating restraint are not unaffordable.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 9:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Extremis and Fanaticism Reply with quote

ehsan elahi ehsan wrote:
DaveR,
This is the basis for global reasoning. "If we try to analyse the chain it looks like:
disliking- -nterference- intolerance -prejudice -hatred -extremism-fanatacism -terrorism."


Ehsan, would you explain the above chain and how it is the basis for global reasoning?
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 9:16 pm    Post subject: NUKES ARE SCARY Reply with quote

The Japanese attacked the USA (Pearl Harbour) bringing the USA in to WWII after the British, Canadians, Australians, Indians, Russians, Arabs and many parts of Europe had been fighting for 2 years.

They where defending themselves from the Germans and the genocide on the Jewish Race and the inferiors Hitler would say like the Blacks Chinese and yes the Arabs. The dropping of the bomb was the most horrific with the largest destructive force ever unleashed on the world but ended the WWII and may have saved millions upon millions of lives. If the Germans would have got the bomb first they would be ruling the world and many colours and races would be living in fear if not eradicated by now by the Hitler Dictatorship.

People have the right to defend themselves and there where no nuclear rules at the time, little was known about the bomb. But the dropping did not cause the attack on the civilian business center for the world WTC.

I do not believe that the USA wanted a cold war but people where scared here I remember being taught that if a nuke from Cuba was launched we would hide under the school desk, a little terror by the Cubin Government for me as a 8 year old.

Ok if you listen to 100 peoples views they may come out 50 / 50 so it is dependant on the bias we employ to make a final decision. Hey if you listen to CNN it is terrorists that bombed the WTC if you listen to Michel Moore it was a clandestine attack by bush to pump up oil prices or what ever the conspiracy theory is.

OK it was a world war started by people that didn’t believe in having people alive that didn’t have white skin and blue eyes, Hitler would have destroyed anyone that was not.

200 years ago blacks where used by the USA as slaves but are not know – should they still be upset and take militant action against the government.

We must take care to not listen to the wrong person and we can tell if we are by if they preach punishment to those in the future for the sins of those in the past. This is vengeance and it never ends violence…

We all want the same thing but we should not use violence to solve what we think is wrong with the world cause many things are.

Would you feel better if Syria, Libya, Iraq, Iran, and Turkey had nukes with ICBM’s with multi war head and pinpoint accuracy, would help to balance the power?
We would not go 60 years I would put hard cash on that bet but would not be here to collect. I fear nukes more then anything in the cosmos well that and biological weapons.

There are tough questions to be asked like the role of the USA as a world cop and where does it respond and where it does not. I guess if you are in Somalia in Rwanda and you are a war lord you will not invite the USA in but if you are Kuwait you will.

Let’s pray for Hydrogen Fuel development to put any greed to control oil behind us.
And the country with the best solar panels and sunniest days produce the most for sale on the open worlds market. And let’s pray for all the 3rd world country’s becoming developed that they do so with the environment in mind. We only have this one earth.

If you scratch the surface of humanity you will find corruption festering …
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:59 am    Post subject: Soothing Reply with quote

Perhaps Clive will make a forum called, "Globla Soothing". Smile If that should happen, we will have the opportunity to argue over which God is right and why He/She/It/We/They, is/are.

This morning I was thinking about the big mistake I made in 1998, the big mistake I made in 1994, the big mistake I made in 1982, and so on. All of those big mistakes were related only to decisions (or destructions) about/of love relationships, that would or wouldn't have been lasting relationships.

My point is that relationships have occurred with people of different ethnicities, and that if safe, warm enough, and eating enough, I would trade any discussing politics/government/what the neighbor did, for merely holding someone more needed than all that crap.

Silly as it is to quote a band, The Who sang, "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss." -So, we are always ready to trade in the current management, and my suspicion is that we always trade it for a different mask.

Our purposes here are ... to have some friends, to have some intimacy, to have some time alone while we create expressions.... Maybe.

Blegvad wrote (and sang) in the voice of a soldier who had no choice but to go off to war. (Song, "Shirt and Comb"), "There's one thing to you I'll swear. No shirt shall ever touch my skin, nor comb go through my hair. But I'll think of the bed you're in, and wish that I were lying with you there." -I hope I got the quote right. It's an old memory.

Do I think I agree 100 percent with anyone participating in this discussion? Do I disagree 100 percent with anyone? ---No. On principle alone, it would be anti-social, and we really didn't want that while 'reasoning'.

Our purpose, I hope, is to stop the war between us, unofficially, and understand some love within our common biology/humanity/needs/simple wants/...affirmation.

Attitudes are what causes greater numbers to cleave smaller numbers. When we have no smaller numbers, I doubt that we have much reason to be, aside from toil. Toil is good, but toil for no reason is worse than hell.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 5:12 pm    Post subject: Extremism and Fanaticim Reply with quote

DaveR

http://www.writers-voice.com/ABCDE/E/Ehsan_Elahi_Ehsan_what_generates_terrorism.htm
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 6:19 pm    Post subject: ty Reply with quote

Thank you for a thoughtful essay.
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ehsan elahi ehsan
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 7:32 pm    Post subject: Extremism and Fanaticism Reply with quote

matt, thank you for this encouragement.
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ehsan elahi ehsan
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 8:04 pm    Post subject: Extremism and Fanaticism Reply with quote

The essay requires some action and reaction.
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ehsan elahi ehsan
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 6:43 pm    Post subject: Extremism and Fanaticism Reply with quote

When men are delving in deep thoughts, silence prevails.
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